Traders' concern over impact of new bus route on shops

Monday, October 06, 2008

Traders concerned about the impact of a new rapid bus route through Bath were among those who walked its proposed route today.

The walk, which was led by Cllr David Dixon (Lib Dem, Walcot), began at the Guildhall and finished at the Lambridge rugby training ground.

If granted planning permission, the £16 million Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) route would link the east and west of the city, with hi-tech buses running between Newbridge park and ride and a new park and ride likely to be at Bathampton.

The city centre part of the route would see vehicles travel along Broad Street, before turning into Saracen Street and leaving the city centre via Walcot Street.

But businesses say the loss of parking spaces needed to accommodate new bus lanes would have a detrimental effect on their trade.

Martin Tracy, of the Framing Workshop in Walcot Street, said: "There is growing concern in Walcot Street about the lack of information surrounding this scheme. There is precious little parking in the street already and most if it is taken up by residents. We need access, we need people to get to us.

"We have huge problems with congestion as it is, so I don't know how buses are going to travel through here."

But shop owners were relieved to hear Bath and North East Somerset Council proposed the creation of a new stop for park and ride buses to encourage shoppers.

Also taking part in the walk were representatives from the council's traffic safety and highways teams.

The route has proved highly contentious in Newbridge, where there are plans to slice through parts of a handful of gardens, and to use a disused railway path.

Cllr Dixon said: "This march was about being proactive and allowing residents, business owners and councillors to have their questions answered and reassuring them there is no hidden agenda.

"Our immediate concerns were that there have been lots of accidents along the London Road and residents are concerned how putting in an extra bus lane will affect that.

"They also wanted to know if anyone will be losing parts of their front gardens as in Newbridge but we were reassured that they are looking at using the existing road space to accommodate the proposed route.

"We were also trying to get an idea of whether this will be a two-way or single lane bus route and whether parking spaces will be sacrificed.

"This stretch of the scheme is not as contentious as Newbridge and perhaps if this kind of listening exercise had been carried out there earlier on, there would not have been such a furore.

"Although the plans for the route there were first mooted 20 years ago and people were consulted, there should have been another consultation since then."

A public consultation, with exhibitions is due to be held on November 6, 7 and 8 before a planning application is submitted.

Comments (29)

A few years ago, in commenting on the local plan I suggested that the use of large river taxis (perhaps with select stops) along the river should be explored. Assuming the aim is to ease congestion from each side of the city (predominantly commuters or visitors) - then there will be extremely few who will wish to travel all the way from west to east or vice versa. So from the west the river taxis could terminate near Avon Street car park and from the east just above Pulteney Wier. I still believe this should be explored before generating yet more roads. Sadly I have realised over the years that it is too much to expect BANES to consider anything beyond the conventional - the tired 1960s design approved for Western Riverside proves the point! Arthur Streatfield, Bath commented on 09-Oct-2008 12:35

Anyone except a local council, that is, which isn't allowed to compete with a commercial service. rogerh, Batth commented on 08-Oct-2008 21:30

Remove their licence and get someone else in

You can't remove their licence as they don't have one. Thanks to deregulation anyone can run a bus service (outside London) as long as they give 56 days' notice of starting a new route, ending a route or changing a timetable. All that's required is a road-worthy bus and a driver with a PSV licence. rogerh, Bath commented on 08-Oct-2008 21:14

Thank Hugh, that is great. It is such a good idea to have something like that which allows people to see the background/history of an ongoing story, to see how it has developed and how people's view may have changed. Martin, Bath commented on 07-Oct-2008 18:34

My concern is that the BRT buses are going to run empty for most of the day like the P&R buses do now! Let's face it, the BRT is designed for commuters and shoppers who don't live in Bath. They need to sort out public transport IN Bath first and change peoples attitudes (i.e. people who drive 1/2 mile down the road to the shops). Matt, Bath commented on 07-Oct-2008 16:24

Martin, unfortunately it isn't possible to arrange the comments in the way you suggest as they are intended to allow readers to respond to individual articles, and are pretty much tied to them.

However, I have set up a new channel featuring letters and news reports that mention "BRT" or "Bath Rapid Transit". You can find it at http://www.thisisbath.co.uk/brt. Content goes back as far as our site redesign in early September. Hope this helps. Hugh Dixon, Bath News & Media commented on 07-Oct-2008 16:23

I think that I put the following comment in the wrong discussion, here seems like a much better place:

I think that we should have a car free city centre. I also think that we should have a free/very cheap and effective park and ride service so that the centre CAN be car free. The simple fact of the matter is that I would love to get rid of my increasingly expensive car and use the buses, however I refuse to spend twice as much money on something that is half as effective. Why should I spend longer getting to my poorly paid job, standing around for ages waiting for a bus that never turns up (usually when it's raining like today), dealing with other disgruntled members of the Bath workforce and generally having a miserable time? First are a joke, both First Buses and FGW are nothing short of a complete disgrace who overcharge and under perform and whats worse THEY ARE ALLOWED TO GET AWAY WITH IT because they use underhand tactics to remove any competition that gets in the way (Bath Bus Company). Remove their licence and get someone else in. too poor for public transport (again), Bath commented on 07-Oct-2008 16:16

I got the bus for the first time yesterday from the station to St Martin's Hospital, the nearest stop to my house. It was £2.05 then I had to walk for ten minutes to get home. If I make that journey with a friend, it is £4.10 in total. A cab from the city centre to my door is just over £5 - what incentive do i have to use buses? They are cold, slow, and full. I always fond Bath cabs and drivers to be clean, polite and very efficient. Of course, assuming the cabs can use the new bus route, this could be the way forwards! Pip again, Entry Hill commented on 07-Oct-2008 13:57

The situation is that the government has offered bath £54 million of your money to spend on dealing with urban traffic...and the council are going to spend it, come what may.

The fact that the scheme will not solve any problems is neither here nor there. After all they spent £75 million on the Batheaston Bypass, which is two miles long, and every one queues up to get off it, half way along its length. Yes, the RTM will be a waste of time and money.

Let`s face it, its only real purpose is to get shoppers to the new Southgate development and the multinational shops who will be calling the shots for how Bath is run, from now on. Alex Schlesinger, London Road, Bath commented on 07-Oct-2008 12:22

Every BRT story attracts the same sort of comments each time and a lot of them. Is it possible to put all past and present comments in one place instead of on each story to stop people having to repeat themselves? This might actually help the discussion move forward as it would not have to be built from scratch each time. Martin, Bath commented on 07-Oct-2008 12:21

I used to have a 45 minute journey to work on two buses which took me on a very convaluted and congested route through the city centre to get me to my destination.

When the weather was bad the buses would be delayed and I'd walk to the bus stop in the rain, wait in the rain and be crammed in with other wet people when the bus finally arrived. It was a thoroughly miserable experience.

Then I bought a car and reduced my journey to six minutes.

I reclaimed over an hour of quality time each day and I was a lot healthier for not hanging round in the rain. I used a direct and uncongested route and I gave people lifts whenever possible. It all worked out cheaper too.

Buses are great if you haven't got any luggage and they go directly from where you happen to be to where you want to go but how often is that the case?

If buses were the answer Bath's taxi firms would have gone out of business years ago! Anubis, Charlotte Street commented on 07-Oct-2008 09:21

To all those who think that life can be lived on a bus and thaT cars are a needless luxury you obviously have no life or are rich enough to pay the premium of using public transport. I live within walking distance of town but there is no way I can transport a 2 year old in pushchair and 15 bags of shopping from one side of Bath to the other using two different buses and a lot of walking up hills. I can't afford to shop every day at the local shops as that would mean I couldn't take my son to activities like swimming or playgroup, although I couldn't actually afford them having to pay the premium to use local small traders. I have to use the car and I have to park at least once a month in the centre of bath to pick up heavier items. It used to be that if the Podium carpark was full i would drive onto the bus station and then Avon street, but no the Council put in stupid bus gates restricting traffic flow and creating jams at London Roads lights and in Walcot Street. They now want to get rid of all business and residential parking on Walcot street and London Road to get two way bus lanes so empty buses which are not practical for real people with real incomes and real comitments to use. But thats OK because they can still park their BMWs in the city centre and drive through the pointless Bus gates. Of course I could follow my parents, who live on the outskirts of Bath, who now go to Trowbridge, as they do not have sufficient time despite being retired to come into Bath anymore, especially if they use their bus pass which takes 3 times longer than using the car, that will leave Bath for Tourists only just what the council wants. Shaun, Bath commented on 07-Oct-2008 08:16

Buses, entitled rapid transit with their own lanes, do not represent anything exotic. They represent buses, with the main problem that buses bring ¿ contact with other members of the public who you would normally cross the road to avoid. I spent four years without a car in an attempt to be ¿greener¿, using bus and later rail to commute. It was the most miserable experience of my life. I¿m back to owning a car, leather, air con and no matter what the expense or traffic delays; I¿m in a better travelling environment than anyone using a bus. I cannot imagine an occasion that I will ever stepping onto a public transport vehicle again. fitter, Widcombe commented on 06-Oct-2008 19:55

Anil, you really hate Bathonians don't you! We are no worse than citizens elsewhere, bearing in mind we have to pay amongst the highest fares in the UK. Do you not think that towing away bad parkers might be a lot cheaper? And as for improving bus services, what about lowering fares to an affordable level? You are utterly deluded if you think BRT will solve anything, or are the Bath public to be punished wi8th this over-priced white elephant because of your incorrect assertion that we are 'welded to our cars'? JC, Bath commented on 06-Oct-2008 19:23

I've worked it out!

The Council had the map upside down and they think the former railway track runs alongside the London Road. The Bright Side, Bath commented on 06-Oct-2008 19:07

The sensible thing would be to run a conventional five-minute service between Newbridge and Lambridge for a few days as a trial before investing too much of our money. Sulis, Bath commented on 06-Oct-2008 18:39

The new BRT buses will zoom in from Newbridge P&R (saving 2 minutes!!!) but once they get into the centre - according to the map on the council website they will go along the High Street past the Guildhall - they will get stuck in traffic, then proceed along Walcot Street (another congested road during the rush hour) and then onto London Road which is congested all day every day (except between 11pm - 6am).

When are B&NES council and its "experts/consultants" going to listen to the public - the people that live in Bath and have to drive through Bath!? Matt, Bath commented on 06-Oct-2008 18:20

It would, of course, make sense to restrict car access to the centre but wouldn't the existing buses then be able to be a bit more rapid? The BRT can only be as rapid as its slowest point. Wherever there's a pinch point there'll be a long line of slowly-moving BRT vehicles. rogerh, Bath commented on 06-Oct-2008 18:07

Look, it's pointless moaning about the BRT. You can't improve the existing bus services. I'm a daily user of them. No matter what you do, they all fall victim to one thing - congestion; even on bus lanes. This is usually due to some 'idiot' parking or other inconsiderate act.

That's the key. When it comes to road usage, bath's motorists are about the most inconsiderate in the country. I know this from living in other parts of the UK. Even in london, people usually respect bus lanes and the need for public transport to move along. In Bath, I've witnessed several times when people have parked in front of a bus, locked their vehicle and shouted profanities at the bus driver trying to get past.

The BRT hopefully is the start of many measures to push cars completely out If you want to drive in to a small city, occupying the same road space that could be shared by 16 people, then you should pay at least £10. anil, south glos commented on 06-Oct-2008 17:52

How will the buses get past the queues for the Walcot Street Car Park - and how on earth will the Hat & Feather mini roundabout cope? Bemused of Bath, Walcot Street commented on 06-Oct-2008 17:45

I'm still amazed that they still want to go ahead with the BRT.

Bath is one of the smallest cities in the UK. Cities like Bristol, Birmingham, Swindon etc should maybe consider having a BRT - NOT a tiny city like Bath. Small cities like Bath should first of all consider improving its current transport infrastucture - and NOT introducing a new system that no one wants and which will make things WORSE for the city.

When are the next cuncil elections? In fact, do we need councillors? They haven't got a clue what they're doing! Let the public make he decisions! If that had happened 5 years ago we wouldn't have the shambles that is the Thermae Bath Spa! Matt, Bath commented on 06-Oct-2008 17:05

I also can't help but get the feeling that, if the BRT scheme goes ahead, a good number of the small businesses and retailers along Walcot Street are well and truly stuffed - which would be a travesty, as it's one of the very few commercial districts within walking distance of the centre that isn't starting to strongly resemble Anywhere UK. But then, given the Council Cabinet's shrill insistence that Bath must "compete" with every built-up urban area between here and Didcot Parkway, that may well be the point of the whole exercise. David, Bath commented on 06-Oct-2008 16:20

I can't believe that anyone could consider Walcott Street quiet. I was sat in traffic for around half an hour waiting to get to Broad Street on Saturday. The problem turned out to be the huge number of cars trying to get in to the Waitrose car park. DM, Bath commented on 06-Oct-2008 16:18

Walcot Street is a fantastic and unique area that is sure to be destroyed by this plan. What about the Walcot Street Festival? Will that be a casualty in t his hare brained scheme? There's a lot of talk but surely action is what's needed? I would be more than happy to sign a petition/march for the street Pip, Bath commented on 06-Oct-2008 16:11

I believe that property owners are responsible for maintaining their vaults regardless of what the Council chooses to put on top of them. (And possibly not a lot of people outside the Council know this!) rogerh, Bath commented on 06-Oct-2008 15:53

It's fortunate that London Road and Walcot Street are wide, quiet , roads with little traffic and so are able to accommodate these buses without any road widening. Nothing like the Upper Bristol Road, of course. Sulis, Bath commented on 06-Oct-2008 15:49

The problem is that Walcot Street is outside the normal City shopping area, so gets far less passing trade. I'm not sure about how much benefit a bus stop would be, as opposed to car parking. My suspicion is that this would finish some of the Walcot businesses - I am not sure how a bus lane would fit along the London road, and if one-way, it could be very interesting. I still think that the whole scheme is flawed, as the amount of through-traffic has been under-estimated, and you will end up with busses, big bendy busses and normal traffic cluttering up the London Road. It's a pity that our Politicians are so anti-rail, as a rail shuttle service linking Bathampton and Newbridge would be less destructive, and might actually reduce traffic. JC, Bath commented on 06-Oct-2008 15:41

As the BRT vehicles are bigger and heavier than the current batch of bendy buses, and this current batch already do enormous damage to the road surface, I can see the London Road part of the route breaking up the vaults that run underneath the road. I hope the council is putting aside enough money to repair them, because most are part of listed buildings and will need to be properly rebuilt, not filled in. As for Walcot Street, I doubt that it is wide enough to get a BRT past a conventional bus travelling in the opposite direction at some points in the street.

Whoever thought this was a suitable route for monster buses needs their brains tested. Jim Warren, Oldfield Park commented on 06-Oct-2008 15:34

I thought the idea of the BRT was to STOP cars from coming into the city centre! So why the need for parking spaces on Walcot Street!? Matt, Bath commented on 06-Oct-2008 14:48

Read this article on the Bath Chronicle website.